Category: accessible Devices
Do you have it read to you or do you have another way of reading your mail? If it is something other than a scanner and computer, please tell me the name of product and how much it is. I am looking for a better way to read my mail.
openbook 8.0
Well, I'm fortunate in that my wife is sighted, and she reads the mail. I do use Kurzweil 1000 for this also. Maybe if you told us where you are having problems, assuming you are using a computer-based system, there are enough of us around here who could help. There are a few stand-alone systems out there, however depending on the user, I'm not always ready to recommend them.
Lou
I use the KNFB reader that's on my n82 cell phone. Lou, what stand-alone systems are you familiar with?
Well, I know the Extreme REader from Guerilla Technologies, and the SARA from Freedom. I've also used the Ovation and Scan-r, which are essentially the same thing. There is a company called EVAS that has a couple also, but I haven't had any direct experience with them.
Lou
I sometimes use OpenBook, but more often than not, I have a reader who comes over and helps me with such things.
Hi,
I use a reader. Usually, its the most efficient method because you can have them skim and scan documents.
Half the mail I get is darn credit card aps that find their way to the paper shredder and I don't have the time to scan them all in. A reader is a much more efficient way of getting this info quickly.
Maybe a discussion of how to use readers efficiently is in order? Read "The Care and Feeding of Readers" by Peggy Pender. It gives some good tips.
Could you direct us to where we can find that resource? I'm interested personally, but I also work in a rehab agency, and we do a transitioning program every summer for high school students.
Thanks in advance,
Lou
I use a scanner (a really OLD scanner), but occasionally I'll have a sighted friend read some mail to me. Most of what I get is junk anyway. And bills are easy because I can access them either online or over the phone.
i use knfb reder, and kerzweil 1000
Hi Lou,
You can find it on www.nfb.org, but I'll paste it below.
THE CARE AND FEEDING OF READERS
by Peggy Pinder
From the Editor: One of the most valuable professional skills a blind person can acquire and use effectively is managing readers. The ability to recruit, hire, supervise, and fire people providing this service is vital to virtually every blind person who hopes to succeed in school or employment. Recognizing this fact, the planners of the 1993 National Association of Blind Students Mid-Winter Conference asked Peggy Pinder (Second Vice President of the National Federation of the Blind, President of the NFB of Iowa, and an attorney in private practice) to pass on advice and opinions drawn from her experience during a number of years of working with readers to absorb huge amounts of information. It may surprise you, but it is sound and practical advice for those who must get the most out of every hour of reader time. Here is what she had to say:
I have been asked this afternoon to speak about what I have called in my own mind "the care and feeding of readers." It is an important topic for all blind people. I'll begin by defining accurately what we are talking about when we say that we as blind people are hiring a reader. We are not hiring someone to read. If that's what you think you are doing when you acquire a reader, then I think you are starting with the wrong premise. In fact, you are attempting to procure a method of acquiring information, how and when you want it. So the commodity you want is information in the package you define.
Most of my remarks today will be directed toward the paid relationship because that is the ideal one. Someday you will be paying readers in connection with your job, and you should get practice doing the same thing while you are still a student. The vocational rehabilitation agency in your state should cover the cost of your readers while you are a student. When you hire this information-acquisition tool, you are clearly in need of something. In the contracted relationship you establish, the other party (the reader) also needs something. Your first job is to figure out what that is.
When you can say, "I am the blind person, and I want information," and the other person says, "I am the reader, and I want money," the matter is very clear and tidy. It is possible to establish the contract with some other permutation if you wish, but this one is ideal, because it gives you what you most want-- control. When you go into a reader relationship, you must explicitly and implicitly establish that you are in control. Failing to do so is the biggest single mistake that people make in handling readers. They allow themselves to be convinced that the reader's feelings and needs and desires are the important ones in the relationship. If my reader wants to go to the bathroom, of course I'm going to let her go. I believe that it is important to be courteous to and considerate of people with whom you are interacting, but the reader does not make the determination about when and where and how fast and how long and what; you do. And if you don't go into a reader relationship with that firmly in mind, saying it explicitly and conducting yourself as though you believe it, you will let the reader determine the most valuable thing in the relationship--how much you are going to get out of it.
This is true not only because you need a specified quantity of information packaged at a given rate, but because you must also learn how to hire, supervise, and fire readers. In college you can make all the mistakes and learn the techniques in a relatively painless situation. If you master all this by the time you get out into the working world, you will have a leg up on both your blind and sighted competition. The first advantage is that you will know how to get information. You will never be placed in a situation in which you can't get the data you need. Sometimes information is difficult or impossible to scan using today's technology. Most of the material I deal with, for example, can't be scanned. It's handwritten, and there's so much of it that I need to look at bits here and there. So the only efficient way to access it is through human readers. For you as for me, most of the material you will deal with for the rest of your life is likely to require live readers, not computers. A lot of technological development will have to take place over a number of years before this situation is likely to change much.
So you need to learn how to interact with readers--find them, train them, and get rid of them. But you also have to learn that you can do it--not the Disabled Student Services Office, not Mom and Dad, not the itinerant teacher, not your roommate, not your boyfriend or girlfriend--nobody but you directs this very important part of your life: the management and acquisition of the information you need! If you come out of your degree program having mastered this skill, you are set for life with one of the most important techniques you will ever learn. Aside from the confidence you will acquire by knowing that, if you lose one reader, you can find two more, you will also be a skilled middle- manager. Your sighted contemporaries don't have to learn to manage their own time and that of others in determining how and when they are going to study. They pick up a book and begin to read. You have learned to deal with scheduling and control issues. If you have mastered the supervision of readers and are confident in your ability to do so, you can justify putting on your resume that you have middle-management skills.
When the topic of obtaining readers comes up, most people don't even talk about the things I've been saying here. They say, "I can't get readers." Finding the readers you need is a full- time job until it is done. Every time you lose one, getting the replacement becomes a full-time job again. When I was in college, I got readers by putting up notices on all the dormitory bulletin boards. By the time I got them all up, I usually had more readers than I needed. When I went into the working world, I didn't have bulletin boards anymore, so I put ads in the newspaper. This method also yielded me more readers than I could ever use because with both techniques I swept so widely that I got plenty of opportunities to pick and choose among the candidates myself. I can absolutely guarantee you that, if you place a classified ad in the newspaper, you will have to put an answering machine on your phone line to notify people that you have already filled the position. People are out there looking for jobs or hoping to earn a little extra money. You want to find those people. Don't ever make the mistake of under-advertising for a reader.
Personally, I would never take a list from a disabled students services office or anywhere else. I want my readers to know that I am the one who found them, that I outline the job, and that I am the one with whom they have to deal. Not only is it easier to control the situation if the reader needs the cash, but it is a lot easier if he or she is your age or younger. I don't find it easy to control readers older than I, and I never have. I'm sure that is a pretty common phenomenon. There are undoubtedly glorious exceptions, but probably not many, particularly since younger people tend to be the ones who need the most money.
As you can tell, I have never had trouble finding candidates for my reading jobs. I begin by telling them what I want, and I assess their reactions to what I have said. I usually give readers a test; I hand them something to read. Almost no one does a good job of reading that first time. I am more interested in assessing their reactions to being given the book, to being told to stop and go to another page. I am assessing their basic reactions to the constraints of the reading discipline, their interest in the money, and their responses to the little speech I make t
Thanks, James.
Scanning a page of something takes about 30 seconds, and I generally know within 1 page if I'll need to scan the rest of the piece of mail or if it's something that can be shredded. In my situation, it's faster to scan mail than it would be to schedule time with a reader. For those who use readers, particularly if you've tried scanning and found it not to be adequate, I'm interested in your reasoning.
Agree with Chris on this. Another real plus of scanning is you can do it whenever you like, or dressed however you like. Also, the computer doesn't care if you're in a crappy mood. *smile*.
Lou
Hiring a reader, isn't there a security or privacy concern? I'd be nervous a stranger reading my bank details or medical information.
You raise a good point. Some people use family members, but find that very awkward, because they don't want their family to judge their business transactions, or comment on their medical issues. Privacy is one of the hardest things to maintain when using a reader, and some readers feel the need to editorialize what they read, leaving out parts because they don't think you need to know them. More down sides for a human reader. Just factors to consider.
Lou
I have a scanner and Kurzweil 1000. This is quite good if you want to do something that only takes a few minutes. The only trouble I have is reading things like bank and other card details or filing in forms. Is there a way of filling in a form using Kurzweil. Well I know there is, but never worked out how to do it. Otherwise at the minute, I ask a sighted or partialy sighted person to read things out for me if I can't scan them. For stand alone scanning machines, I've used the Galilo machine and scannar, but I don't think they're as good as the scanners you attach to the computer.
Harmony, I have to agree about the older stand-alone scanners. Newer versions of Kurzweil do have a forms option, although I haven't played with it to see how good it is or isn't.
Lou
Using a reader is very efficient, you just have to make sure they know that your in control.
When I pay the reader, if the person decides to editorialize or skip details, I warn them twice no to do it. After that, I just don't hire them any longer. I tell them this up-front and figure its their responsibility to remember the rules.
Start them out by telling them that they are only there to read, nothing more and nothing less. Their job is to read info to you as quickly and efficiently as they can. If you tell them to skip, skim, stop, etc, it should happen immediately regardless of what they think. You, as the blind person, have always got to be in control.
I like scanners and they definitely have there place, but I don't have one at the moment, so a reader works fine once you get them trained.
Use open book and have used a scanner for years. Got sick of waiting for people to come and read stuff to me especially if the reader had her own issues and was in a hurry. No family around to read stuff. I think the classic remark that pushed me to getting my own way to read mail was my reader once said about a document, oh, you don't want to hear this. It's not important. I want to be the judg of that and don't want folks reading bank info.
I do not have a scanner, I know how to use open book but that I don't have either. I have a person that is arround a lot but he is dislexic, witch doesn't help. Hel sceems over paper and then tells me he doesn't know what it is. I need this for my mail. I have been running in to isues wear I am told to call or do someting by a date and I don't get it done because i have no way of knowing whats on the paper. My fiance is grate at going threw my mail, however I only see him once a month or so and that isn't often enough. I do know one person who is grate with helping me, however they aren't alsways arround. How much would you pay a reader? Like if you only had them come once a week or somehting. Or hourly pay,
When I do need my reader friend to fill out something, she gets about $10 an hour. Catholic Charities has caregivers who come and help for $25 an hour, but if you can't pay that the state picks up the tab if you ar on medicare, at least that's here in Illinois.
Jamesk, that sounds a bit fashist.
I think he or she should have some liberties as long as he doesn't argue with you when you say, "I think so, can you please still read it?"
Remember they are human and not a machine or equipment you handle and you still need to have communication skills.
As for me, either my father read it or I get stuff by e-mail. I don't get much snail mail, so that's not a problem as of yet.
I could get a friend to swear they won't tell anyone and be nice enough to them to have them read it to me for free, so a reader isn't necessary.
I get sighted people to read my male. Scanners aren't always accurate and if somebody reads it and it's something that needs filling in, they can help me with that.
Exactly, but scanners are useful.